Addicted to Approval: What Happens When You Stop People Pleasing

In this bold and soul-baring episode, Elaine is joined by powerhouse coach and speaker Jacquie Grillon for a truth-packed deep dive into people pleasing, perfectionism, and what it really takes to unlearn the conditioning that keeps women stuck, silent, and drained.

From Catholic school trauma to addiction, codependency, and overgiving in work and relationships — Jacquie shares her personal story of growing up in dysfunction and how she began the lifelong process of reclaiming her voice.

Key Takeaways

• People pleasing is not kindness — it’s self-abandonment in disguise.
• We often give not from generosity, but from a deep need to be chosen, included, and liked.
• Recovery doesn’t end with putting down the drink, food, or men — there are deeper emotional patterns to heal.
• When you stop people pleasing, many relationships will fall away — and that grief is real.
• You’ll either work your trauma out with one person over 30 years, or with 20 different ones — the lesson will keep coming until you heal it.
• Boundaries may feel awkward at first — but laughter and grace can help you hold the line.
• Healing makes you more effective, not less — Jacquie shares a story of a client who reclaimed her life, her joy, and even lost 100 pounds by finally prioritizing herself.

“If you’ve ever said yes when you meant no — this episode is for you.”
In this truth-packed convo, I sit down with the fierce and fabulous Jacquie Grillon, who pulls no punches on people pleasing, growing up in chaos, perfectionism, and why boundaries are the new black.

Jacquie Grillon: JacquieGrillon@gmail.com

🎧 Available now on Captivate the Mic 
Tag your fellow recovering “good girls” — this one’s a must-listen. 💥💛

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Transcript

0:04

Hello and welcome to Captivate the Mic with Elaine Williams where we talk about confidence, storytelling, speaking, how to be more effective, more powerful. I have amazing guests on, and I give. Tips and tricks and tools from being in the performance arena for 50 plus years. And I wanna tell you today, I am so excited. I have a very special treat for you. This woman, her name is Jackie Gian, and she a client, a friend, a colleague. We had been working together for a while on her visibility. And she's already an amazing dynamic speaker and we're doing some work on video and in this interview she goes so deep into people pleasing. Why we do it. If you grew up in dysfunction, how it's a survival skill and how it can really be sucking your soul and taking your power away, and she gives some amazing insights. Every time I talk to her, I'm like, woo. So sit back, listen, take notes. Please share this with somebody who needs to hear it. I know a lot of females, we were. Cultured and educated and groomed to be people pleasers. And there's some really powerful insights in this amazing and dynamic interview. So enjoy. Thanks so much for being here. I am so excited everybody. I am here with the fabulous and amazing Jackie Grill on, is it Grill on Grillin? Yes. I mean in French, to be technical it's grill, but grill, in America, I've been butchered. It's grill on, it's grilling, it's turned the grill on, whatever it was. It's Jackie G. There you go. So everybody welcome. This is Captivate the Mic, and I am so delighted to share this brilliant woman with my listeners and viewers because Jackie, you have done it all. You have transformed yourself again and again. We've both done a ton of work and I have never had anybody. Break it down. The people pleasing thing, like there's some things that you have spoken about, perfectionism, the people pleasing, and how when you are a giver you attract the takers, like you just have just laid it down. So eloquently and powerfully and a little bit like Woo. But isn't that what we want A bitch slack of truth versus something that's oh, that's a nice thought to think about. No, like I want to be transformed, so I call me on my stuff. Listen, that's the jersey. I can't hold back from that. I love it. So tell us a little bit about. Whatever you wanna say about your evolution, if you will. My evolution with people pleasing or evolution in general. Yeah. Why don't you start at the, let's start at the very beginning. Okay. No musical theater, Elaine. Just tell us a little bit about, I know you grew up in dysfunctional family, of course. Does anything, whatever you wanna say about whatever you wanna say about what led you to this path. Okay. So when you grow up in a family, our parents did the best they could with what they had. My mom was probably not diagnosed with a lot of different things, just like I've only been diagnosed with some certain things, right? Our parents, were young. My, my mom was 19 when she got married, and my dad was 24. They didn't have a clue what was going on anyway. So growing up, what I thought was normal was anything but normal. There was a lot of yelling and screaming in my house. There was a lot of, my dad was one to for punishing because he didn't know how to handle children and neither did my mom. And my mom would leave the room and my dad would line us up to span us. So that was like, not a fun time. So it was just like weird stuff like, but that was all normal. I went to Catholic school, that's when, back in a time when our parents basically paid to have us abused physically, mentally, and emotionally all day long. It's not like my parents knew any better. They think they're doing right by their children paying to go to, a private school, like they're doing the right thing. They have no idea the positions that they're putting us in. The conditions and the containers that, I. I was born into, were not, ideal. They were ideal for, abuse and addictions and avoidance and dissociation and things like that. So of course I became a people pleaser. Of course, let me do whatever I can do to get you to pick me, love me, and include me. Just please don't abandon me, and Right. Because you were being, that's how you survive Catholic school, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. So whatever I needed to do, and then I basically begged my parents to let me go to public school in seventh grade. Because please give me Yes. Gimme away from the nuns, right? Yes. It was terrible. And out of the 30 that were in our class, only two of us got to go to public school and we thought, wow, we have a ride. Woo. So now we have no idea what this is gonna be like, right? Because we've never done the go to a different class every period thing. We've never done the have 500 people in your class. We've had 30 people in our class for whatever. So that was a rude awakening when I got into my first class, homeroom of my first class, which was also like social studies or something, history, whatever. And they started saying, okay, so you know, here's the outline of what we're gonna do this year. Like we never had any of that. And then it would be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you probably already learned this in third grade. And I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my god. And that's when I realized I don't know anything. What they teach you in Catholic school is pretty much, they shove religion down your throat. They shame you and bait beat you and tell you to sit there and. With a sin in your soul and all the things. And and then, now I get to this big school and I don't know anything and plus I have all these other things. So who am I gonna talk to about all of that? Yes, it was my childhood, so no wonder it led me into checking out and addictions and people pleasing and all the things. Yes. And I think. Addiction. That's a whole, one woman show for both of us. Absolutely. And I think so many people do get into recovery, which is beautiful. And then there's still so many other things. The codependency, the people pleasing, the, yeah. Self-doubt. We put down the drink, the drug the men, the food. Shopping, the, all that. But then there's so many other layers and I think you and I have talked about this before, like we do things to survive our families.'cause we can't move out'cause we're 10, right? Whatever. And so we discount the pain. It's not that bad. We keep going. We pour our hearts into the school or to musicals or performing or whatever, cheerleading, sports, and then. But you've gotten used to discounting and then what happens with so many women that I've worked with, and same for you. You have these adult women who are doing amazing things and they're like it's not that, they still are discounting things. So it's like, what served you growing up is not serving you now. So I feel like so much of. The work that you and I both do is helping people unlearn the things that served you until they didn't, right? So stop discounting your badassness and the fact that you have 53 degrees, or that you conquered a mountain or that you've bounced back from. Whatever. Dating not great men, right? So let's get into, I think I've done all of those things you just mentioned. For those of you listening I just lost my father a couple of weeks ago. And I've, I've been giving myself grace and crying, but boy, I am like, Elaine, you need to break up with sugar. It is time. It's just, there's a way to comfort yourself and then you're like, okay, this is actually hurting me. It's not serving me. Never a dull moment. But I Absolutely. Somebody said sometimes you'll do the old behaviors, but not as long or as much. Or not to the Detri, of course. Of course. Because once you can't pretend you don't know anymore, right? Whether, let's just say for instance, a guy, a guy who's abused you or whatever. It doesn't mean that you're not gonna pick another one. If you haven't healed any of the things that attracted them to begin with, you're going to pick another one. It's just how it is. You're gonna work it out with one person for 30 years or 20 people. 20 different people, but it's the same lesson. You're gonna work it out. The difference is that you'll see it coming. Yes. And then the more you feel that particular trigger issue, whatever it is it will become, like I said, you see it a lot quicker, so you're not gonna stay in it as long. So whether it's. Picking a bad relationship or a bad job or sitting in self pity, you're just not going to want that as long. The more you heal, the more self-esteem and self-worth and just your inherent ness of being worthy to be an existent human on the planet goes up when that, goes up, you won't tolerate that kind of stuff anymore. Oh, I love that. Thank you. I'll have some of that please. Thank you, Jackie. I love it. That's so beautifully said. And some of the things that you have said about really all of the things you've said about people pleasing, just pierced my soul and my heart, can you speak to, can you share one of the stories of the people you've helped or tell us a little bit about the people pleasing, because I think so many women struggle with that and men are. Yeah, people pleasing is a big one. Whether it's in your personal life, whether it's at work, and if you even have it to a little bit of a degree, whether you grew up with it or you just do it in work because you don't wanna make waves at work, right? Or you're looking to get ahead. We tend to, say yes when we mean no or say no when we mean yes. And it gets a little muddled and confusing for people who aren't even full-blown people pleasers. But when you come from a background of codependency and addiction and secrets and things like that, it's definitely more prevalent because everybody's never being their true selves. And if you're not being your true self, you're people pleasing somebody. And now a quick word. You know the best way to grow your business and your brand is to be out there speaking, whether it's on stage, in meetings, on camera, but maybe your talk isn't really landing. Are people running? To the back of the room to come sign up for your thing. When you go on podcasts as a guest, are you growing your list every time you're on a new podcast, because people hear you and they hear a compelling story that moves them to take action and grab the freebie that you're offering, so that you're going your email list. If you've answered no then we should have a talk. What I have found from working with amazing, brilliant feminine leaders for many years now is sometimes. Leaders can get a little too serious or too intense or too attached to all their content, but it's in the book. But this, they love this part, we don't want too much. You can have the best content in the world, but if you're fire hosing them. It doesn't matter. And sometimes you're too close to the material to have any objectivity. One of my superpowers is to pull apart keynotes that aren't working, pull apart stories that have gotten stale, pull apart videos series that aren't landing so that we can see how can we infuse some humor, how can we infuse emotion? Which causes people to take action. And maybe we need to take out some of the data or content if it's too much, or maybe it can be said in a more compelling, concise, pithy way. So if this is resonating with you, I encourage you to find my scheduler. It's in the show notes. I would love to have a quick zoom call with you. No pressure, and we can just find out. Where you are, what's going on, and if maybe it's time for a little revision or a little breath of fresh air, a little humor infusion. So now let's go back to the show So in the land of people pleasing. It's tough because you've set it up that way, whether it's conscious or unconscious. For me, personally, my underlying thing, when I was people pleasing, I would do anything for anybody that I cared about and I still will. The difference was, is back then the unconscious part was I was doing it to my detriment. I would give. I wasn't taking care of myself. I would give to avoid looking at myself, and I would give because I needed you to like me, and I needed you to pick me, include me, whatever it was. I needed something from you. I didn't realize that at the time. I thought I was just this wonderful person because it was my only sense of self-esteem. Me doing for you. Made me feel good about me. That's still a benefit. So I don't even know. I'm using you for self-esteem. So it's still me looking to the outside to make myself feel better, and it's a brilliant distraction from looking at my own stuff. But it's the only way I know to have self-esteem at that time, which I just think ding ding. Everybody like, it's so brilliant how you said it. It's it's great to be acts of service and to be generous of, but if you're doing it unconsciously Yeah, as a way to make yourself feel good. And that's the only way you can do that. That's a. Dangerous formula. Ask me how I know I have the bumper sticker and the T-shirt. That's the problem. You don't know. You don't know that when you're doing it. It's not until you have problems. Everybody talks about you're not gonna look at anything unless you have a problem with it. And even then some people are like no. La. It's not really happening. But it's not until. You're doing all these things for people and they're not appreciating it, they are still leaving. They're not doing anything back for you. There's nothing reciprocal, and you realize that pretty much every relationship you're in is one sided, then you have a problem. Because now you're getting drained and now you're the you who's the wonderful giving person that you are, even though you haven't looked at your motives yet is getting drained, and now you're resentful, bitter, and angry at the same people that you're doing all this for because they're not even appreciating you, let alone giving you a thank you, which. Was my setup to begin with because I expected at least a thank you or appreciate. Oh, yes, boy, bye. I, Debbie Ford used to talk about do you give to get Right. And I am. I've been in recovery a long time. Not as long as you, when people say, check your motives. That didn't resonate with me. I didn't. It just, sometimes there's certain phrases that you're like, yeah. I'm a good person, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And I still struggle with this, when I give somebody a tip, like at the coffee place, I'm like. I want everybody to see that I'm giving a tip, like I've done that. Or you wait to hand it to them so they see how wonderful you walk. I'm really, but I want, I don't want just the coffee person to see me. I want every oh, that's hilarious. It's so pathetic. I'm just being vulnerable. Here. There is a part of me that's. Still like when I worked at the Steakhouse for 15 years, I loved being loved. I walked in and it was like, Elaine's here, now we can work. There's a part of me that's still a recovering drama queen and a recovering people pleaser, and I guess. The great news and part of this was out of conversations with you, Jackie. Oh. And I'm catching myself more and I'm, I am really, truly trying to give. Just to give. And if forget a thank you, awesome. But for many years I would overestimate friendships. Like I'll never forget. I let this woman who I hardly know come stay at. I had just bought my house, just bought my house. It was my brand new three family house. I saved living in a one room studio for three years, and I go away on a trip. And I let her stay at my house. Like looking back, I'm like, what an idiot. And then I thought we were good friends. And then when she got married, I wasn't invited and I was so offended and, multiply that times a hundred. And that's been a process for me and I'm sharing this with people because I do see this. With women in business in particular absolutely. Especially women in business, right? Because men don't have to. People please. They have their boys club thing going on, so it's a little different. Women have it. Much tougher in business. So you're gonna see a lot more women, people pleasing and not sticking up for themselves because they're, if they voice their truths, the way that men do whatever it is, whether it's, something that adds or. Something that could potentially hurt the business. They're going to be viewed a lot different. They're going to be labeled, so they put on their best. And I'm not saying it's full blown people pleasing, but it is, and you are. Every single time you do that, you're abandoning yourself. You don't think. Are, but you are, you're sacrificing something. You're selling your soul even just a little bit. But it's for work. Oh, I just don't wanna make waves. Oh, it's this. Oh, it's that. But each one of those little things will niggle at you or not you just a little bit at some point. It's like an un undermining of self. Yes. And you make it okay until you don't make it. Okay. So somebody like me who is a full blown. Whatever you need. Please just love me. As needy as they come, doormat to be the person who's standing in front of you, who is clearly not like I overshare, I over stick up for myself and advocate for others to the point where I know people are looking at me sideways and I can get in trouble for that, but it's like there's that, rebellious part of me that's I'm not gonna be silenced ever again. And here's where I love using humor, right? So I first started becoming aware of this when I was working at this steakhouse. And, I had some super close friends and some sort of friends, and then some people that were just like, you stay over there, and I remember. Trying to set a boundary about something and it was so awkward. I was so like, ugh and then luckily the next day I could go to that friend and say, you know what? I'm sorry. I'm so awkward. I'm really working on boundaries. And I just am like, Ugh. And we laughed about it. Now, obviously you cannot do that with certain people, especially if they're a authority figure, but yeah, being able to laugh when you're in what I, like the transf, the goo of the butterfly, right? Yeah. All those times when you feel like I'm growing and it's like I'm growing out of my skin and I feel weird, if you can use some humor with yourself, absolutely. And with the people that, that's such a gift. Now, Jackie, that's tough, right? Because when you're in the middle of changing anything, people pleasing any issue that you're working on, right? It's I'm changing and I forgot to tell people, and it's not like I need to tell people, but people are like who the heck are you? One minute you're doing this and now you're not doing that. You always say yes. And now you're telling me no. Yes. And then that's the thing. So when a people pleaser stops, people pleasing, if you're in one side of relationships, they're all gonna go because those takers need to go take from somebody else. They're not in a re, they never signed up for a reciprocal relationship. They gotta go. So that's when you really find out. What's really going on. But it's also heartbreaking, right? Because that immediately throws you into deep grief into what my whole life was a lie. And then you have to look at the fact that you've set it up that way. That yeah, your life was lie because you weren't even being yourself. You were people pleasing them. You weren't even being you at the time. So it does start a whole process, but it's also the beginning of. It was very painful when I thought that I was beloved and all these things. Yeah. And I do have some people that I've stayed in touch with, but of course it was a big reality shift Yeah. Of the story that I thought, we tell ourselves these things and then the truth comes out and it's whoa, jackie, you have shared with me so many client success stories. We could go on and on. I would love to hear about the woman who you helped her with one thing and as a side effect, she lost a hundred pounds. But I just love this story and we don't have to say her name, but can you just tell us this fabulous story. Yeah, so she came to me because she had a lot going on with work and home and family and trying to juggle it all, as women do you know? And trying to be the super mom and the super wife and the, the super, why can't I think of perfect woman? Yeah. She's not a worker, but like in her job, her, her I don't know why I'm losing my words, her title. That what I'm saying. Yes. Yeah. She's, an executive, right? So she has to, it's, there's a lot of. What it looks like in this world, right? It's all about smoke and mirrors. Just look at social media. Unfortunately, it's all smoke and mirrors, and we unfortunately compare our outsides to the insides, and that's where we get in trouble, right? We all wanna be what it looks like, and none of it is for real, right? There is no super mom, there is no whatever. You do the best you can and you juggle as much as you can, but when somebody comes to you and they're like, what's wrong with me? That I don't have it all together. And I'm like, yeah, welcome to the rest of us. Yeah. No, nobody has it together. Nobody gave me the answers. Nobody gave my parents the answers. I have fumbled through it all. Any successes I've had in my life is because I had to go through all the pain and the muck like you were talking about earlier, and the heartbreak and the, the trial and error, I haven't learned, I've only learned things from things. That I've messed up or I've done wrong. I don't learn when life is just handed to me. I, there's no lessons there. Everything was hard fought and and definitely earned. So when she comes to me and she tells me she's burnt out and she has all these things done right, first, we have to. Regulate, right? So the first thing you gotta do is get them back regulated into their nervous system, into their body. Help them remember like why they got their job, why they became a mother, why they became a wife, why, just remember little things here and there just to get you back into yourself because they're so out there about what they should be doing, and they have all these balls in the air and you're out outwardly focused, which is how women are socialized, especially exactly. Everybody wants to keep all these balls in the air and we're terrified to just let the balls fall down because if we let the balls fall down, we are so terrified that who will do that job? If I'm an executive, I'm definitely thinking they're just gonna replace me with somebody else. And, it's not, it'll probably be a guy or whatever. I'm gonna be, replace in two seconds. And then if, if I don't take care of my husband, you know he's gonna divorce me and my kids will always love me, whatever. So the only person that I know, who still wants something for me is my dogs. That's how she felt, right? She had these pugs at home like that. As much as she knew everybody else, loved her, cared about her, and all that things, she knew the only unconditional love she was getting really was from her pugs. And she still had to feed them, so she still had to do things, so I feel like, so there definitely was no time for her. So anyway, long story short, we started just slowly. Not so slowly.'cause this really only took six months and then at the end of a year, she didn't even really need to work with me after six months. But she was feeling so good. And as a byproduct of her coming back into herself, remembering who she is, what she really liked in her life, remembering what her joy and what her soul wanted for her, remembering all of that. She started making different lifestyle choices, because she was working so much and everything else, she was like eating on the go, so she wasn't eating right and all the other things. She wound up losing a hundred pounds just because she just started paying attention to herself for the first time in a long time. She wasn't even like looking for that. That just was a byproduct. She was working out. She started, the endorphins are flowing. Everything is, she's feeling good about herself, the home life. All of a sudden, all this time that we say we don't have, she has extra time for herself for working out. Her job is still getting done. Only she's now a more productive person at work. More energized and focused. Yeah, so she's actually bringing in more money at work. She was so de terrified of letting the balls fall that she was gonna lose her job, let alone get a ccc, a CA C-suite position. Like you don't think, you think all of our fears about what we're gonna lose all our self-centered fears, right? Either somebody's gonna take something we have or we're not gonna get something we want, or whatever else. And that's our self-centered fear dinging. Brilliant. Yes, of course. If you let the balls fall, it's oh my God, what's gonna happen? We always make it worse in our head, or at least I do. So when we just. Let one ball fall, in a safe place like at home and realize your husband's not gonna leave. The kids are fine, the dogs are fed and blah, blah, blah. And and you could still work out a little or you could still whatever. Then you can start implementing'em in places that you're really terrified at. And for her, it was work. Like she thought like she would lose her job or lose her position or lose her whatever. And she didn't. She wound up, being promoted and. Being in charge of a whole team that she didn't even have before, that she didn't even think she could, and she was hesitant to take that part because she didn't, she was. So used to now taking care of herself and letting the family work on its own and letting the job work on its own, like working smarter, not harder. Wow. She wasn't sure if she took on a team, if that was going to take away her me time because now she worried. Valuing herself now. She was valuing her me time and she didn't know if taking on a team versus just doing her duties as an executive was going to interfere with that, but it actually didn't, so she started out slowly. It's not like they give you a team of 20 to start with, so she wound up with a small team, and then as it grew. She learned to trust them because she trained them. So she learned to rely on others to do their jobs, to know that they're just as competent as she is, and to know that everything else will work out and that she is there as backup for all these things, but that she gets to take, her, she gets to make herself just as valuable as all the other things that she was valuing more in the beginning when she first came to me. So you helped her own her value and her worth and delegate. Wow. That's profound, Jackie. In six months. That's, it just makes me feel so good because, you work with people, I work with people for years and it's you can't really take credit for it. They're doing everything. All you're doing. They're doing the work, helping them remember all of that. But it does make me feel good, right? Oh my totally. It totally makes you feel good when you see them making these things, you're like, oh my God, that's awesome. And you're like cheering for'em on the sidelines. You're like, that's so awesome. I have goosebumps. That's why I love this work. I love watching people achieve. You like the, that new level or reclaim their voice or, I got to speak last week, Jackie, and it was messy. I was like, my dad just died. I'm gonna get emotional. I went off script, but I was so authentic. I had 65 women on the edge of their seats. I was like doing comedy, then morphing into stories and it was very unconventional, but it was one of the best talks I've ever given because there's something. I always say like when I've had some of the best performances when I'm sick or crying there, because there's something about like vulnerable, the mask has been taken off and it's this is me real and raw. You don't have to pretend, right? Yeah. And I'm always like, if you want the most perfect, poised, polished speaker, coach, that's not me. But if you want authentic, funny, quirky human. Sign me up. But anyway, back to you, because I just think this work is so important. I know you shared another story about this woman,'cause I remember the horses. I remember what the horse horses, because I think, again, this is just a beautiful story. So please tell us about this person. Okay. So I worked with this girl again. She wasn't she used to be in the corporate world, but she decided to become a stay-at-home mom, right? So this is the complete opposite than the executive, but they were both moms. So she was a stay at home mom, so she was feeling a little resentful that, the, that the husband got to go outta the house and she had to do all the things or whatever else. And she was saying, stay at home. Mom is so hard. You're never done. Yes. You never are done. Absolutely. And she loved that. She wanted to do that because she wanted to spend time with her children. That was her dream. And the fact that they could do that, they, they had to buckle up a little, but that they could do that. She wanted that, but we all get a little resentful or jealous when you're looking at the husband gets to go out every day. They're covered in, whatever, like green peas and Yes, whatever. Exactly. So at some point everybody gets a little resentful or jealous. We're all human, right? We all have emotions. And so by the time she got to me, she was like, listen, I chose this. I wanted this, this is not, I'm not like, I feel a little lost and I'm getting and she was getting a little rageful about it, right? So she, she was having trouble like with her emotions as well, right? Sometimes we don't know what to do with it or what have you. So we started there. We started at okay, what's really going on? And and people tend to either put our. What we can't feel, there are big stuff that we can't feel. We use a placeholder, right? So in her case, she was using her husband as a placeholder for her pain. And so we needed to take that back because it's not his fault that he had a job and he was being a good provider, right? He just was doing what he's supposed to be doing, but she's blaming him for all of it because it makes her feel good. But now it's got a little rift in their relationship. So that's not good, even though she's the one who wants to be at home. But there's the other part of her, like her soul or her joy was like, I want, stuff too. So she had all these inner turmoil about all of this. She put it all on her husband and first I had to, make her recognize that it wasn't her husband's fault, and that yes, these were her choices and the family's choices, that they both decided to do this and this is what they wanted and this is what they're doing. And she didn't really wanna change any of that. But she also knew that she couldn't keep going on the way she was, she couldn't keep going on blaming him and fighting with him, especially in front of the kids. It's not the life she wanted. And again, it's just a matter of, getting to what's really going on. And then for me. It's always coming back to who you really are. And a lot of us, we just forget, we get busy, we have kids, we go to work, we have a job we develop all these different identities and we lose the original identity that sometimes gets lost at a very young age, especially if you come from a lot of trauma. The, that little girl or that little boy that's inside that used to like to go out and, play with frogs or horses or whatever. And for her. It was horses. And for her, she was an equestrian jumper. And I was like, are you kidding me? Or whatever you call it. I don't remember exactly what it was, but you know what I'm saying? She was an equestrian that did the jumping things, right? Yeah. Hunting jump. Yeah. Yeah. And then she was like, no joke. Yeah. So I was like what did you used to love as a kid? And what was your joys? And so she's like pulling out all the ribbons and the things, and I was like, oh my God, this is crazy. So when was the last time you were in front of a horse? She's oh, I can't even tell you. And I was like. Why aren't you with a horse? Oh, I don't have time for that. I have, I don't have, we all never have time. We have no time. But the whole point of us being on the planet, I think, is to come back. It's a to love yourself and remember who you are, and to give yourself all the love you wanna give to others. You better be given to yourself first because. That's your legacy right there. Whether you have children or you don't have children, that's your legacy. That's how you can be a walking, breathing example on the planet is to love yourself. That is the shining example. So to do for everybody else, and you're depleted. That's not a legacy. You're basically teaching everybody in your life that you're exhausted and and probably gonna be, need to be on meds someplace, it locked up in a psych ward that, that's not, or burnt out or dying work. Yeah. That's not somebody's legacy. That's not a legacy, I don't think. Whatever you believe in that's bigger than us is anybody's will for anybody. If our, if I feel like the universe's will for everybody is to live in joy and peace and the remembrance of who we are, who we really are, at a soul level, remember who you are and if that's the case, we have to come back to that. We have to. Come back to that and remember what your joy was and what your joy was when you were a little kid is a great place to start. It may not be where you end, but it's a great place to start. Because that's gonna get you remembering. Oh, I used to love that. Like I was into photography. I always thought I was gonna be a, still a a still photographer on a movie set. That was my thing. I still love photography. I am a photographer in my soul, will I ever get paid to be a photographer or whatever? I don't know. Moving forward, who knows, but I've never, done the necessary steps to take that anything forward than what I have. So for right now, it's a hobby, but that's in my soul, so you move on to other things and other things become important. Anyway, for her it was horses. I said why don't you just go to the stables and just scope it out, like you don't have to do anything. Oh no. I can't do that. And I go why? Nobody's telling you gotta go like jump horses or anything, but you can just go see a horse. Nobody's telling you to sign up for a show. You have to go immediately to the Olympics. Yeah, no, yeah. But in her head it went to, if I can't be the number one rider and have first place, then don't do anything. It was all or nothing. So then we had to deal with that. We had to break down the all or nothing thinking, and we had to deal with all of that. And we had to remember that it really was about joy. It wasn't about winning something, it was just about remembering. What she loved and what her soul loved and everything else. And don't, she not only went back to the horses and whatever, she got back up. She was in her little outfit, and she was jumping with the horses and now she's got her daughter involved. Her kids are involved too, but her daughter is actually in the shows and doing all the things that she did when she was a kid. But it's just so funny when your mom. Goes and finds her joy, whether her daughter is ever gonna continue in that she showed her by example to have joy in her life again, and that sparked joy in her daughter. And whatever it does for her sons, it doesn't matter whether it's horses or not, you're just showing them by example. Joy, that's the point. Show them what you love. You're gonna be better in everything, whether it's your job, your home life, your regular relationships, humans at the food store. But if you don't, we're all gonna be overwhelmed and exhausted and in doom scroll, like too many things are, I love that Jackie. So I love that so much. And it, having just lost a parent and. My favorite parent, it's it just makes you think about life is precious and it is short. Even though I have had periods where it seemed really long and I was like, are we done? I think, everybody if you're awake and or we are unconscious, we have those moments. But I love that. I do believe, I obviously, I believe in a god, a higher power, universal source, mother nature, whatever you want to call. And I believe that we are here learning our lessons, and part of the lesson is, can you find joy amidst all the chaos and craziness, right?'cause when you can still give yourself permission, right? Then it gives other people permission. Because if we waited to have everything perfect. You wouldn't get on stage, you wouldn't like, it's, there's always gonna be humanity and chaos as long, I love that so much. Yeah. That's here's tips and tricks 1 0 1, life is a big fat distraction. And if you get sucked in and drink the Kool-Aid of the distraction. And if that's not clear enough of what's going on in the universe right now. Life is trying to pull you away from yourself. To frighten you, to instill fear in you to instill chaos. Chaos is great, right? Chaos is great because it's a disruptor and it's a great catalyst for change, but you get to decide what that change is gonna be. Are you gonna come from the fear-based and drink the Kool-Aid and go into, anxiety mode and things like that? Or are you gonna come back to who you really are, which is love and stillness and joy and compassion? And if you're not in those places, that's not who you are. That's what life is trying to get you to be afraid. So you make. Decisions based from fear instead of based, in your stillness, oh, I love that. Yeah. No good decision is gonna be made from fear. I love that in the stillness. I've done. Like you, lots of energy work and I'm always like, the inner critic, I have a couple of voices, my stepmother is still there, lot of course. And what I've learned for me is when I can get still, which is hard for me when I have this sort of inner small voice, it bubbles up. And I have to be still and quiet. That's my work. Many times that is my higher self or what I would consider God or my guardian angels. And it's quiet. It whispers. And sometimes I'm like, could you make it louder, please? But. My, because I'm not my per, I've never had a problem like sitting on the couch and not, and procrastinating. I'm like a doer. And my work, at least this lifetime, is to sit and be still and to trust that and be with the silence, and allow life to have its day with you. Not force and make up for long time. Wow. That's the, I love it Jackie. I is the doing the yin is the allowing right there has to be allowing or there's no magic if you're constantly doing and making it all happen. Where's there room for the magic of God or whatever it is that you believe in, or life to actually help you, to move you, to integrate all of that. If there's no allowing, if you're constantly doing, there is no room for it. Oh my gosh. Okay. Super quick story. So I had my spleen taken out. We found this huge cyst and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then, this is years ago, and the doctor, I was like it's not cancer. And he was like not yet. And he was like, you're gonna need two weeks. And I was like, two weeks. And I had back to back shows and college conferences. I was touring and you work so hard to get those gigs and if you cancel, that's it. That you are never, so I was like, can I postpone it till January? And he was like. I guess anyway, so I finally have to go. I'll fall. I have Christmas and then like January two I have my surgery and it was, I have a scar, and all of a sudden I'm stuck at home and I had all these people coming over and bringing me food and I was so touched and surprised. And I remember just thinking, wow, Elaine, you're always searching for the love and if you can just sit, look what's coming. And it was so profound. And of course I didn't, two weeks and I was like, all right. But it was such a cool, allowing, the universe was like, you're gonna sit, anyway, I love this. Okay, so Jackie, I know you work with people one-on-one and you also have these fabulous groups, a healing group and, or I'm sorry, circles, empowering circles. Can you tell us a little bit about how those work? Yeah, sure. Obviously, I come from a bunch of different worlds, right? So we have the regular street, smart world, and then we have the woo world, right? And sometimes they mix and sometimes they don't. Right? Sometimes woo people, I. Non woowoo people don't like woowoo people, so that's why I have two, right? Because I wanna be all inclusive, right? So we have a healing circle that maybe we do some energy work and some meditations and things like that, and some processes to come back to whatever, and then it basically just opens up and then it. The group feeds off of each other. The power of groups is awesome because the energy of a group is just amazing to me, and the transformations that happen and they're inexpensive, right? And then the empowerment group is for nonoo people where maybe we'll do a guided meditation, but maybe not. Maybe we just start off with Hey, how's your week going? And everybody shares about whatever. And again, it just gets into that or what have you. But there's not gonna be like any energy work or anything like that, so it doesn't turn off anybody. So they're just too. Two, pretty much opposite sides of the same coin, so to speak. They basically do the same thing. They help each other to you, help each other to relate and hold each other accountable and all of that fun stuff. And we get to see each other's progress and we get to see the measurable results of those progresses every week. And that's pretty awesome. And then there's other people, of course, that wanna work one-on-one, and. Some people wanna work for a short time and other people are like, no, I need you for a year. And I'm the, teach man to fish person. I don't feel like people should need you forever. And even when they think they do, you have to kinda, as the good parent, kick'em out of the nest or what have you, but. That's why I have different things, even for one-to-one, whether it's three months, six months, or a year. But some people never need that amount. It's a personal thing. I don't have cookie cut or anything. Okay. Love it. And then there's other things where we do events, where they're lives and things like that. And. Lately, for the past number of years I've been called to sacred sites around the world and things like that. And every time I get back, whether it's friends or colleagues or what have you, and they're all like, that's so interesting that you go to all these things and nobody's paying you and you just go to these places and do this, fun rituals. Stuff on the land, and then you come back and bring all of that back to us. We wanna come, we wanna be involved. So I have a feeling retreats are going to be Yes. Into that. And and then I, and I'm doing a lot more podcasting and speaking and things like that, so I'm putting myself out there, with this whole camera thing, which is my work. I'm working through my camera fears and all of that fun stuff. As I don't have a problem speaking to anybody or even speaking from a podium, but put me on that camera. That's my work. That's where we're all growing and learning and a lot of people evolving. Yeah. Many people. I have days where I'm like, ah so I'm gonna put how to get in contact you in the show notes for people. Awesome. Because I think you resonate with a lot of high-powered women who. Maybe can't relate to the, everybody take a deep breath. Those, I call oh, love and light looking bubble ladies. And they're great. They're great. But I'm like, I'm more, you know this for, yeah, I'm a get it done. I'm a get it done kind of girl too. Like I said, I'm from Jersey, but I also, I'm a big believer in work smarter, not harder, and sometimes we just need. When you're in the middle of something you can't see it. You just need, outside reminder, I approach a different set of eyes. Exactly. I just, I'm, I'm just amazed how, one conversation could completely woohoo. Absolutely. So Jackie, thank you so much for sharing your beautiful wisdom. It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Client stories with people. I just, I love your work. I have a vision of us going to a sacred place with other fabulous. Oh, I would love that. And I really hope to see you at the horse thing and anyway, to be continued and everybody, thanks so much for listening and please share this episode with a woman who needs to be inspired or that this might resonate for her or a guy. And please share, subscribe, rate, and review.'cause that's how we get this. Captivate the mic out to a bigger. Crowd and my vision like Jackie's is to help heal the world. One video, one story, one person, one client, one joke at a time. And so that's it. Yeah. Here we are. Okay. Bye everybody. Thanks again. Thanks Jackie. Bye. Remember who you are.